stay away from letting the debt ceiling not be raised because those are things that the american people will hate. they'll hate us defaulting onli blame you for it. they'll hate us shutting the government down. if you want to make a stand, make it in the sequester. the sequester has a lot of things that are painful to the democrats and the president. that's the place to plak the stand. and, look, everyone agrees, every rational person agrees with michael. you've got a spending person as well as a revenue problem. we've got to cut spending. if you're republicans, make it under sequester. if you shut the government down or if you don't allow the debt ceiling to be raised and america defaults on its debts, whoa is you. there are a lot of suburban republican congressman who are absolute absolutely signing their death warrant. >> well, why not make the point on the sequester. why go to this extreme of a government shutdown. >> well, i'd actually agree with the governor. i think that that is a better spot to hold some ground. quite honestly, because those cuts are already in play. everybody k